The Sleep of Reason: The James Bulger Case (21 page)

Bobby
.
Then we took him down and left him on the How.

Roberts
.
On the How?

Bobby
.
By the railway.

Roberts.
By the railway, all right. Now you went past the reservoir, yeah?

Bobby
.
Pardon?

Roberts
.
Did you go past the reservoir?

Bobby
.
Yeah, we went up on the reservoir, yeah.

They begin to go over the route that Jon, James and Bobby took from the
reservoir to the railway, and the map is produced. Bobby says that they saw two women with dogs on the reservoir and, after Jon had asked one of them where the police station was, they had walked down Bedford Road to County Road, and then down Church Road West. They had not gone into any shops on County Road. From Church Road they had crossed over to the How, and left James there. Bobby and Jon had then gone to the video shop.

After some detailed discussion of the whereabouts of the How, Bob Jacobs asks Bobby why they left James there. Bobby says if they had taken him to the police station they would have had to go in. There was a taxi there, and the fella would’ve took the baby. James wasn’t crying, he was just looking round. He just had a graze on his eye.

They talk for a while about the video shop, and what happened with Jon’s mother. Then Phil Roberts says, okay, now who had the tin of paint? We never had a tin of paint. We know you had the tin of paint. We never.

Bob Jacobs explains how the police can find paint that’s been splashed on clothing. Jon had paint on his jacket. Bobby doesn’t know about that, he never saw it. Well, it was there, so where did it come from. Bobby says he doesn’t know but his mum’s painting the house. It’s not house paint. Baby James had paint on him, didn’t he? Bobby doesn’t know. Have a think about it. Bobby begins crying. Yeah, well, youse are trying to say I killed him. He slumps in his chair. His mum tells him to sit up.

We want the truth, says Roberts. They know he can tell lies. We never killed him, Bobby cries. Well, the police know he was on the railway line. He wasn’t. They had all this yesterday, and now they want the whole truth. It’s about time for the truth.

Ann is getting upset now, and Bobby is still crying.

I left him at, on the end. I don’t think you did, I don’t think you did. I did. Bobby, we didn’t want to upset you, we don’t want to upset your mum, now if you don’t.… Yeah but youse are trying to say that we killed him. We have found things on your clothes, right Bobby, and we know you’re telling lies, you see. But I never killed him. Well, tell me what happened, the paint, tell me all about the paint. I never got no paint. Well, somebody got the paint, did Jon get the paint? I don’t know, he might’ve picked it up from a shop. It must’ve been a small one, ’cos I never seen him with a big tin of paint.

Again, Roberts and Jacobs press Bobby to admit that James was not left at the How, and that they had a tin of paint. Bobby resists them, and continues to cry… crying, the officers observe, without tears.

He stops when the subject changes, and Jacobs begins asking if James, Jon or Bobby were bleeding, or had blood on them. James wasn’t bleeding when they left him, and Jon would have said if he was bleeding. Bobby says he might have got blood on him after Jon’s mum dragged him out of the video shop.

Did you see anybody who had blood on him? Who? Did you see anybody who had blood on him? No. No, and James was okay? What? And James was all right? No, he’s dead. When you last saw him, was he all right at the time? Yeah.

The officers decide it’s time for a break. Would Bobby like a cup of tea or some dinner or something? He’s just had one. Well, they’re going to give him a break. He’s told them a little bit more about the story, but they need to go further into it.

Bobby begins crying again. Yeah, well, why can’t I go home with my mum? Because we haven’t asked all the questions we need to and we haven’t had all the right answers. Well, when they’re all right can I go with my mum? Bobby, we need to speak to you a little bit more, we want to know. We want to know. Well, I don’t want to sleep here again.

Phil Roberts says it’s up to Bobby to tell the truth. He says he is. Roberts says they know he’s not telling the truth about the paint. Ann says she told him before, just tell the truth.

Bobby
.
We did have paint. It was a little enamel wasn’t it?

Jacobs
.
Yes it was.

Bobby
.
Jon took it.

Jacobs
.
Where from?

Bobby
.
I think it was Toymaster.

Jacobs
.
When was that?

Bobby
.
Friday.

Jacobs
.
No, but at what stage, Toymaster in the Strand was it?

Bobby
.
Yeah.

Jacobs
.
What colour was it?

Bobby
.
I didn’t know, it was in a little silver tin with a white label on.

Jacobs
.
Was it. Now, did he take that before you took baby James?

Bobby
.
Yeah.

Jacobs
.
Where did he put it?

Bobby
.
In his pocket.

Jacobs.
Okay. Now, did he open it at that stage or when did he open it? When did he open the tin?

Bobby.
When we were walking along the road.

Jacobs.
Which road?

Bobby.
Bedford.

Jacobs.
Bedford Road. Okay, now you still don’t have to tell us anything unless you wish to do so, anything that you say can be given in evidence, you understand that do you? We still want to know what happened with that paint, all right? Now what happened with it?

Bobby.
He threw it in baby James’ eye. That eye, I think it was.
(Bobby
points
to
his
left
eye.)

Jacobs.
Where was that?

Bobby.
On the railway.

Bobby says he doesn’t know what happened then. He ran away from Jon. What did James do? He sat on the floor. He was crying. Why did Bobby run away? Because Jon had splashed stuff in James’ eye. Why did Jon throw it at him? Bobby doesn’t know. What did Bobby think about it? Were they having a joke or what? No, Bobby was crying himself, because he threw it in his face, he could have blinded him.

When Bobby ran off, Jon ran after him. James was crying but, no, he was not injured in any other way. Bobby is sure he wasn’t bleeding.

The officers produce the map and Bobby shows them where he, Jon and James got over the railings on to the railway line. It was by the entry on the far side of City Road, the bit with the tiny railings. They had walked back up the entry between City Road and Walton Lane to get there. Phil Roberts marks an X on the map.

Bobby explains how they walked along the embankment, Jon holding James’s hand. He thinks Jon threw the hood from James’ anorak into the tree, after they had walked under the City Road bridge, the broo. Another X on the map. Bobby doesn’t know why Jon threw the hood. He just ragged it off him and threw it.

They walked on and, just by the bridge, Jon threw the paint. James was looking down and he went like that and it hit him in the eye. Bobby gestures in demonstration of Jon’s throw, an upward movement with his arm. Bobby told Jon to throw the tin down, and he threw it on to the bridge.

The buzzer goes. Bob Jacobs says they’d like to carry on speaking straight away. It takes four minutes to change the tapes and start the fifth interview.

Before Bobby ran off, had anyone hit baby James? Jon might have hit him in sly. What makes Bobby say that? Because Jon is sly. Okay, when was that? No, I only said he might of, in sly. You didn’t see him? No, but, ’cos he is sly. If baby James had been hit, he would have started crying, wouldn’t he? James was already crying. Was he? ’Cos he wanted his mum. He wasn’t crying all the way along, he just started crying when Jon threw the paint in his eye.

Jacobs goes back to the theft of the paint. Did Jon take anything else that day? Pepperami. He ate it before they were with James. Did either of them take some batteries? No. Are you sure about that? Yeah. Phil Roberts says he wants to point something out. Bobby went all red in the face there. He went a bit red in the face as if he knew something about it. Yeah, well, I’m hot. Bobby begins crying. Yeah, but, I never took no batteries. I’m terrible, says Phil Roberts.

Bobby is asked again about the batteries, and, still crying, says that Jon
might’ve took them. Where from? I don’t know. You do know, this is what you said last time, but you told us where the paint came from, didn’t you? Yeah, well, I don’t know where batteries … why do we want batteries? That’s what Phil Roberts wants to know. Why did they want paint? Ask Jon, I didn’t. I didn’t want paint.

The officers can make no further progress with the batteries, and decide to end the interview, which has lasted for eight minutes.

*

Jim Fitzsimmons still thought Michelle Bennett should be in the team interviewing Jon, and Michelle Bennett still felt she wasn’t ready. At least the Downstream Monitoring equipment had finally got to Lower Lane. Michelle Bennett and her colleague Dave Tanner set themselves up in the small medical room next to the juvenile detention room, and eavesdropped on Jon’s fifth interview through the extension speaker. It was twenty past twelve on Friday afternoon.

Mark Dale and George Scott picked up the theme of the previous interview, taking Jon through his walk back to Walton with Bobby. He said they had gone to Hillside School (which was almost opposite the reservoir) and played in the long jump sandpit. They both jumped, and Jon won because Bobby doesn’t know how to jump. Mark Dale says there must have been sand in his toes when he got home. No, says Jon, he took his shoes off.

They went to County Road then, and Bobby stole the paint and the borders from Fads. Jon goes into great detail about what they did with the paint and the borders, and is supplied with a sheet of paper on which to draw the size of the tin of paint. He says it was bigger than the little tin that was found at the railway. It was Crown paint, and it was thrown round the back of the chip shop by Olney Street.

The officers allow Jon to continue with this for a while, and George Scott says Jon’s given them a good story for that day. Now does Jon remember last night when he told them the story of where he’d been and they found out it was a lie because Robert had said they’d been at the Strand. Yeah, Jon remembers.

Scott says, well, Robert’s told a different story about being at the Strand. What does Jon think he said. Jon doesn’t know. What does Jon think he might have said about what they did at the Strand. Robbed. Something different … not just robbed. Jon doesn’t know. He doesn’t know what else. Scott says Robert said that the two of them were in the Strand and saw the little boy.

Jon is immediately anxious. We never, we never. Susan says is that the
God’s honest truth? God’s honest truth, I’m telling you, we never, he was too scared, he was probably too scared.

Robert said that you took him by the hand and led him out of the Strand shops. We never. No, not we, Robert is saying that you took him by the hand. I never. Not Robert, you did it. I never. Well, why would Robert say that about you? He’s a liar.

Jon is beside himself with distress, out of his chair, going to his mother, who tries to pacify him. It’s all right, come on, all right, all right love, you tell them the truth and you never, did you. Lawrence Lee is asked to monitor the situation. Jon is crying uncontrollably. I never took him by the hand, I never even touched the baby. All right, I believe you, says Susan.

George Scott then tells Jon that the fingerprints he had taken yesterday match the fingerprints at the Bradford & Bingley. Jon says, yeah, he did go in there. He thought before they meant the Halifax. Jon describes what they did in the building society and says they then went to the Strand. He’s crying again. I never touched a baby. I know, says Susan.

They tell Jon not to get upset. They’re only asking about the building society. Scott says the man in there remembers seeing them again outside, and that they asked for money. Is that right. Tell the truth, says Susan, did you ask for money? Jon says it wasn’t him, it was Robert. I never took the baby, mum.

Lawrence Lee asks Jon if he’s all right to carry on. Yeah. If he wants to stop at any time just say so. Scott says he must tell the truth, because he keeps telling them stories. I never got the boy.

Scott
.
Well, well, if you never got the boy tell us what happened, was it Robert? You’re nodding your head.

Jon.
Yeah, he left him in, he left him in the road.

Scott.
Right, well, let’s go back to, into the Strand.