Complete Works (292 page)

M
EGILLUS
: You’re absolutely right.

A
THENIAN
: This freedom will then take other forms. First people grow unwilling to submit to the authorities, then they refuse to obey the admonitions of their fathers and mothers and elders. As they hurtle along towards the end of this primrose path, they try to escape the authority of the laws; [c] and the very end of the road comes when they cease to care about oaths and promises and religion in general. They reveal, reincarnated in themselves, the character of the ancient Titans
²⁸
of the story, and thanks to getting into the same position as the Titans did, they live a wretched life of endless misery. Again I ask: what’s the purpose of saying all this? My tongue has been galloping on and obviously I ought to curb it constantly; I must keep a bridle in my mouth and not let myself be carried away by [d] the argument so as to ‘take a toss from the hoss’, as the saying is. Let me repeat the question: what’s the point of this speech I’ve made?

M
EGILLUS
: Well asked!

A
THENIAN
: The point is one we’ve made before.

M
EGILLUS
: What?

A
THENIAN
: We said
²⁹
that a lawgiver should frame his code with an eye on three things: the freedom, unity and wisdom of the city for which he legislates. That’s right, isn’t it?

M
EGILLUS
: Certainly.

[e] A
THENIAN
: That was why we selected two political systems, one authoritarian in the highest degree, the other representing an extreme of liberty; and the question is now, which of these two constitutes correct government? We reviewed a moderate authoritarianism and a moderate freedom, and saw the result: tremendous progress in each case. But when either the Persians or the Athenians pushed things to extremes (of subjection in the one case and its opposite in the other), it did neither of them any good at all.

[702]
M
EGILLUS
: You’re quite right.

A
THENIAN
: We had precisely the same purpose when we looked at the settlement of the Dorian forces, Dardanus’ dwellings in the foothills, the foundation by the sea, and the original survivors of the flood; earlier, we discussed music and drink from the same point of view, as well as other topics before that. The object was always to find out what would be the [b] ideal way of administering a state, and the best principles the individual can observe in running his own life. But has it been worth our while? I wonder, Clinias and Megillus, if there’s some test of this that we could set ourselves?

C
LINIAS
: I think I can see one, sir. As luck would have it, I find that all the subjects we have discussed in our conversation are relevant to my needs here and now. How fortunate that I’ve fallen in with you and [b] Megillus! I won’t keep you in the dark about my position—indeed, I think that meeting you is a good omen for the future. The greater part of Crete is attempting to found a colony, and has given responsibility for the job to the Cnossians; and the state of Cnossus has delegated it to myself and nine colleagues. Our brief is to compose a legal code on the basis of such local laws as we find satisfactory, and to use foreign laws as well—the fact that they are not Cretan must not count against them, provided their quality seems superior. So what about doing me—and you—a favor? Let’s [d] take a selection of the topics we have covered and construct an imaginary community, pretending that we are its original founders. That will allow us to consider the question before us, and it may be that I’ll use this framework for the future state.

A
THENIAN
: Well, Clinias, that’s certainly welcome news! You may take it that I for my part am entirely at your disposal, unless Megillus has some objection.

C
LINIAS
: Splendid!

M
EGILLUS
: Yes, I too am at your service.

C
LINIAS
: I’m delighted you both agree. Now then, let’s try—initially only [e] in theory—to found our state.

1
. Epimenides’ ‘magic brew’ was believed to have been inspired by Hesiod’s mention (
Works and Days
40-41) of the virtue of mallow and asphodel. For Epimenides, see 642d ff. and note.

2
. A ‘cycle’ is apparently thought of as the interval between one cosmic upheaval (e.g. the flood) and the next.

3
.
Odyssey
ix.112–15.

4
.
Iliad
xx.216–18. ‘He’ is Dardanus; Ilium is Troy.

5
. At 636e ff.

6
. The four are: (1) single families under autocratic rule, (2) collections of families under aristocratic rule, (3) the cities of the plains (e.g. Troy) with various constitutions, (4) a league of such cities, now to be discussed.

7
. For the first capture, see
Iliad
v.640.

8
. Agamemnon and Menelaus, who led the expedition against Troy.

9
. Hippolytus’ stepmother Phaedra falsely accused him of sexual misconduct towards herself; Theseus, her husband, prayed for the death of his son. The prayer was granted, but then Theseus discovered Hippolytus’ innocence.

10
. 625d ff.

11
. The Athenian alludes to a few lines of a poem now largely lost (frg. 109 Snell): cf. 714e and 890a.

12
.
Works and Days
40.

13
. Procles and Eurysthenes, the first kings of Sparta, were the twin sons of Aristodemus.

14
. Lycurgus, who created the Spartan Council of Elders.

15
. The expression ‘third savior’ is proverbial, and refers to the custom of offering Zeus the Savior the third libation at banquets. Plato probably means Theopompus, a king of Sparta in the eighth century.

16
. Five annually elected officials who in addition to wide executive and judicial powers exercised close control over the conduct of the kings.

17
. I.e., Sparta: see 683c ff. and 684e ff.

18
. See 684a.

19
. Messene. Cf. 698c–e.

20
. Cambyses, son of Cyrus, was King of Persia from 529 to 521. ‘Disaster’ refers to the military failures of his reign, his tyrannical madness, and the short-lived seizure of his throne by Gomates (see 695b and note). Cambyses was succeeded by Darius (521-486), who followed the prudent policies described in 695c–d. See Herodotus, III, 61 ff.

21
. I.e., an education of extreme luxury.

22
. Gomates impersonated Cambyses’ dead brother in order to seize the kingdom.

23
. 624a ff. and 691d ff.

24
. 689d ff.

25
. Cf. 631e ff.

26
. At 647a, 671d.

27
. The Greek word is
nomoi
, which also means ‘laws’. Cf. 722d, 775b, 799e.

28
. Children of Heaven and Earth, long-standing enemies ultimately overthrown by the Olympian gods.

29
. See 693b.

Book IV

A
THENIAN
: Well, now, how should we describe our future state? I don’t
[704]
mean just its name: I’m not asking what it’s called now, nor what it ought to be called in the future. (This might well be suggested by some detail of the actual foundation or by some spot nearby: perhaps a river or spring or some local gods will give the new state their own style and title.) This [b] is my real question: is it to be on the coast, or inland?

C
LINIAS
: The state I was talking about a moment ago, sir, is approximately eighty stades
¹
from the sea.

A
THENIAN
: Well, what about harbors? Are there any along the coast on that side of the state, or are they entirely absent?

C
LINIAS
: No, sir. The state has harbors in that direction which could hardly be bettered.

A
THENIAN
: A pity, that. What about the surrounding countryside? Does [c] it grow everything or are there some deficiencies?

C
LINIAS
: No, it grows practically everything.

A
THENIAN
: Will it have some nearby state for a neighbor?

C
LINIAS
: Absolutely none—that’s just why it’s being founded. Ages ago, there was a migration from the district, which has left the land deserted for goodness knows how long.

A
THENIAN
: What about plains and mountains and forests? How is it off for each of these?

[d] C
LINIAS
: Very much like the rest of Crete in general.

A
THENIAN
: Rugged rather than flat, you mean?

C
LINIAS
: Yes, that’s right.

A
THENIAN
: Then the state will have tolerably healthy prospects of becoming virtuous. If it were going to be founded near the sea and have good harbors, and were deficient in a great number of crops instead of growing everything itself, then a very great savior indeed and lawgivers of divine stature would be needed to stop sophisticated and vicious characters developing on a grand scale: such a state would simply invite it. As it is, we can take comfort in those eighty stades. Even so, it lies nearer the sea than it should, and you say that it is rather well off for harbors, which makes
[705]
matters worse; but let’s be thankful for small mercies. For a country to have the sea nearby is pleasant enough for the purpose of everyday life, but in fact it is a ‘salty-sharp and bitter neighbor’
²
in more senses than one. It fills the land with wholesaling and retailing, breeds shifty and deceitful habits in a man’s soul, and makes the citizens distrustful and hostile, not only among themselves, but also in their dealings with the world outside. Still, the fact that the land produces everything will be [b] some consolation for these disadvantages, and it is obvious in any case that even if it does grow every crop, its ruggedness will stop it doing so in any quantity; if it yielded a surplus that could be exported in bulk, the state would be swamped with the gold and silver money it received in return—and this, if a state means to develop just and noble habits, is pretty nearly the worst thing that could happen to it, all things considered (as we said, if we remember, earlier in our discussion).

C
LINIAS
: Of course we remember, and we agree that our argument then was right, and still is now.

[c] A
THENIAN
: The next point is this: how well is the surrounding district supplied with timber for building ships?

C
LINIAS
: There are no firs or pines worth mentioning, and not much by way of cypress, though you’ll find a small quantity of plane and Aleppo pine, which is, of course, the standard material shipwrights must have to construct the interior parts of a boat.

A
THENIAN
: That too is a feature of the country which will do it no harm.

C
LINIAS
: Oh?

A
THENIAN
: It’s a good thing that a state should find it difficult to lower [d] itself to copy the wicked customs of its enemies.

C
LINIAS
: And what on earth has been said to prompt
that
remark?

A
THENIAN
: My dear sir, cast your mind back to the beginning of our discussion and watch what I’m up to. Do you remember the point we made about the laws of the Cretans having only one object, and how in particular the two of you asserted that this was warfare? I took you up on the point and argued that in so far as such institutions were established with virtue as their aim, they were to be approved; but I took strong exception to their aiming at only a part of virtue instead of the whole. [e] Now it’s your turn: keep a sharp eye on this present legislation, in case I lay down some law which is not conducive to virtue, or which fosters only a part of it. I’m going on the assumption that a law is well enacted only if it constantly aims, like an archer, at that unique target which is the
[706]
only object of legislation to be invariably and uninterruptedly attended by some good result; the law must ignore everything else (wealth or anything like that), if it happens not to meet the requirements I have stipulated. This ‘disgraceful copying of enemies’ to which I was referring occurs when people live by the sea and are plagued by such foes as Minos, who once forced the inhabitants of Attica to pay a most onerous tribute (though of course in saying this I’ve no wish at all to hark back to our old grudges against you).
³
Minos exercised tremendous power at sea, whereas the Athenians had not yet acquired the fighting ships they have today, [b] nor was their country so rich in supplies of suitable timber that they could readily construct a strong fleet; consequently they couldn’t turn themselves into sailors at a moment’s notice and repel the enemy by copying the Cretan use of the sea. Even if they
had
been able to do that, it would have done them more good to lose seven boys over and over again rather than [c] get into bad habits by forming themselves into a navy. They had previously been infantrymen, and infantrymen can stand their ground; but sailors have the bad habit of dashing at frequent intervals and then beating a very rapid retreat indeed back to their ships. They see nothing disgraceful at all in a craven refusal to stand their ground and die as the enemy attacks, nor in the plausible excuses they produce so readily when they drop their weapons and take to their heels—or, as they put it, ‘retreat without dishonor’. This is the sort of terminology you must expect if you make your soldiers into sailors; these expressions are not ‘beyond praise’ (far [d] from it): men ought never to be trained in bad habits, least of all the citizen-elite. Even from Homer, I suspect, you can see that this is bad policy. He has Odysseus pitching into Agamemnon for ordering the ships to be put to sea just when the Achaeans were being hard put to it in their fight with the Trojans. In his anger, Odysseus says to him: