Phillip Adams (24 page)

A podcast listener who had been four months in Hamburg from Sydney emailed
LNL
to say she listens each day at the same time as her father listens in Brisbane and asked Adams to give him a 75
th
birthday greeting, which he did. One, teaching English in Japan, said he always tunes in ‘over coffee and misty eyes'. A listener in Poland said
LNL
helps him to improve his English and this shows how podcast technology makes the world smaller. One in Chile said
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‘remains the most intelligent update on the continuing comedy known as Down Under'; one in the Czech Republic listens on a bus taking him to a school where he teaches English. Another in Kenya chided Adams for not mentioning Poddies in Africa. One listens while working night shifts in an English supermarket. Another email, which Adams mentioned on-air, told how ‘Gladys, of Perth' went to hospital to have a baby, her husband forgot to pack birth music, so the nurses brought her a radio, she listened to
LNL
and as the final music came on, gave birth. Her family now calls Adams ‘Uncle Phil'.

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Adams' conversation on-air is as casual as it is off-air, spiced with Australian slang and occasional swear words. He likes stirring the possum: he obviously enjoyed having an on-air conversation with the author of a book about US place names such as Squaw Tit, Shithouse Mountain and Whorehouse Meadow. He never uses ‘Mr', ‘Dr' or ‘Professor' but introduces people by their first and last names, then adds their qualifications and continues using their first names. If an academic comes from an overseas university, he asks them who their university was named after and this slows them down and makes them more conversational. He's inquisitive rather than interrogative and this natural curiosity makes for a better experience for his guests.

LNL
, like any broadcast program, has to be kept moving but Adams deliberately talks slowly on-air because he's found that radio requires a slower pace so listeners can take in the thoughts and ideas. That's also what he's found when chairing public forums. His main aim is to make the program enjoyable and informative; he wants to go off-air knowing more than when he went on-air and for listeners to do the same. But his relaxed on-air style is not often easy to achieve: most of his on-air conversations are with people in another ABC studio or on the ‘dog and bone', as he calls it, and this means he can't read their body language and react accordingly. If they pause during the conversation, he wonders whether they have slipped off their chair.

The main reason
LNL
is viewed as left-wing is Adams' left-wing views, which he never hesitates to give. He often mentions that the former prime minister, John Howard, declined to appear on the program. Why advertise a failure? Appearing humble is part of Adams' style. But he is one of the very few left-wing Australian media commentators or writers.

He is a conversationalist, not an interrogator: he doesn't grill people but prefers to let their views stand, even if he disagrees. His program presents ideological subjects with him as a moderator, not a player. He has never told his producers he doesn't want a certain person on the program. Some people he's had spats with have come back on, although there is a fairly long list of people who won't appear.

Chris Bullock, who was the program's executive producer until he was switched to another program in 2010, told me Adams is easy-going and easy to work with. ‘He's not demanding. After all, he's been around for a long time and doesn't have to prove anything. He knows
LNL
back to front. He's comfortable with what he does, likes doing it and has developed a warm relationship with listeners, with the program and with many guest speakers, some of whom return years later and find that Phillip remembers their last conversation. Even if the guests disagree with his views, they want to have on-air discussions with him because he doesn't try to impose his views on them and also because of his large audience. Many guests, for example, have just published books and jump at the chance. The conversational
LNL
format is what attracts many listeners. It is relaxed compared with current-affairs programs, at times of the evening (10.05 p.m.) and afternoon (the 4.05 p.m. rebroadcast next day) when listeners are starting to slow down. No other program in Australia, the United States or Britain is as personable.'

Bruce Shapiro, who has been the program's US correspondent for the past 12 years, told me on a visit to Sydney that
LNL
is unique in the English-speaking world: ‘Phillip is far more subtle that US broadcasters. I can't think of any broadcaster in America or Britain who brings such a combination of intellectual subtlety, craft and connections to the listener. Phillip is one of the greatest interviewers of English-language radio. The way listeners are invited into the program makes it different from any other. It's a powerful program and I always encourage Americans invited to take part, to do so. The guests are shown respect, and the intimacy Phillip has between him and his guests and his listeners is remarkable. But we mustn't neglect his producers' hard work and dedication to getting the right guests and the right background.'

Each week, Shapiro sends the producers an email saying where he'll be for his usual Tuesday night slot and suggests topics he could talk about. The producers also suggest topics. But Adams likes to make a game of it and sometimes asks Shapiro something not on the radar. Adams is good at creating a dramatic structure so the listener is taken by the hand at the start and walked through the program. It's expertly crafted. The story-telling craft of having an underlying argument is the big secret challenge of doing good radio. It's rare and invisible to the listener. Few broadcasters master structured conversations on-air. Shapiro writes a column in
The Nation
in the US and is executive director of the Dart Center for Journalism and Trauma, a resource think-tank for journalists covering violence and tragedy.

***

The most common criticism of
LNL
is that Adams interrupts his guests too much. He also sometimes talks too much before introducing them. He has a lot to say on many subjects; he has a good memory of a rich life and brings some of those experiences into on-air conversations, often while his guest is talking. His producers talk to him about this habit of interrupting guests and give him the emails complaining about it, but to no avail. Other listeners complain about his left-wing views; some say they don't agree with his views but like hearing his guests. The listeners who complain most strongly claim he has sold out to the right wing. Others accuse him of making fun of serious subjects. As an example of the many ratbag complaints, The 9/11 Truth Movement attacks him because he doesn't believe its claim that 9/11 was a conspiracy.

Sometimes Adams' producers wonder why he spends more time talking to one person and less on another, or takes the program in a particular direction. They discuss these matters with him but ultimately see it as his program and believe he knows what listeners want to hear. It is up to Adams to decide which questions to ask; his producers suggest questions and he may ask them, or he may take the conversation in another direction. Adams, not his producers, carries the program and they will not tell him what to say.

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's presentation style and content have not changed over the years except that, while the standard program still has three stories, there are more one-hour conversations on a single subject with one, two or three guests, usually in three different locations around Australia or the world. The only people
LNL
avoids having on-air are the celebrities who fill popular magazines, and it has few politicians, as they are current-affairs fare. Not only John Howard but also Kim Beazley won't talk to Adams. He has fallen out with Bob Hawke. But the ex-Attorney-General Philip Ruddock and ex-Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, both strong Howard supporters, have appeared.
LNL
policy is to have guests who are actually doing something rather than reporting it, but this is often harder to achieve. The program is necessarily locked into the English language and Adams admits it
doesn't do a good job with the rest of the world because it is often hard to find Eastern European, Asian, African or Latin American decision-makers who can speak reasonably fluent English. Even among English speakers, many people who are good at writing are not good at speaking. So
LNL
often has to use commentators rather than decision-makers. Rarely, Adams turns down a conversation with someone whose views or personality he detests. But many of the people who won't go on-air with him, or who he doesn't want to talk to, are pro-establishment or right-wing. He sees no point in having hostile people on air with him in a conversational program, although many people he does have on-air disagree with him or he with them. But in four years of listening almost every night I have never heard voices raised.

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The funniest
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story Adams tells concerns David Hill when he was the ABC managing director in the 1990s: ‘I used to attack him in newspaper columns, although it was a golden age compared with one later under Jonathan Shier. David was intensely disappointed with me and
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but heard we had booked a conversation with Henry Kissinger, who had written a wonderful book on diplomacy. David was particularly interested because he had visions of becoming secretary-general of the UN, as did Bob Hawke and Gareth Evans, in spite of the fact that no-one with English as their first language has ever had the job. I was not entirely convinced that Henry would turn up in our New York studio to have a talk with me in Sydney. I had one ear on the studio and the other on the rest of the program, which I was stretching in case Henry spat the dummy. I heard that David had flown to New York to meet Henry. To my delight I heard David welcoming Henry in our studio. Henry sounded as if he was in a foul mood as he sat in a chair to be interviewed by someone he had never heard of in far-away Australia. So I quickly wound-up the other conversation I was having on-air and tried flattery on Henry. It always works. I said it was a tradition in the US that anyone could go from log cabin to White House but the log cabin can't be in Poland, which had prevented my next guest from getting to the White House — he had always worked for someone else there. Henry purred. After the interview I could hear him telling David it was the best interview he had ever had and who was I? David replied that I was a very good friend of his!'

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has hour-long and shorter conversations in reserve in case it can't make contact with people. Sometimes Adams stretches the rest of the program and tries to work out what is happening on the other side of the sheet of glass between him and the producer. If they can't locate the first person to come on, they often start with the second or third. Often it's a chat between Adams and three others in different parts of the world and if one or two can't be found at the crucial time, Adams starts with the others and hopes the two lost ones are found before the segment ends. If not, he apologises to the audience, which proves it's a live program, although some ABC people regard an apology as bad form.

Adams' interviewing technique is carefully crafted and practised. He uses the well-worn device of praising guests on-air, slightly exaggerating their influence and often downplaying his own, to get the guests and listeners onside. He briefly outlines the guest's career before easing the conversation into the first topic and then steers it the way he wants it to go. He aims to make the conversation a subtle, sophisticated dance, although sometimes it goes off in other directions.

He leads the conversation and keeps it going. The
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producers give him a written introduction to the speaker and the subject, but often he does his own introduction because he believes that too much on Radio National is read, which results in a loss of spontaneity. He has never found a subject that is simple — there is always something to say on either side. Much thought goes into the questions. Some guests would have been answering the same kind of questions for 30 years and Adams could leave the studio to make a cup of tea. Each program is planned days or weeks in advance. The producers might start by phoning a potential guest on the basis of researching a subject, to see if they are articulate and if their ideas would fit in with others' to make a good program. Not everyone wants to take part anyway.

Although Adams sometimes interrupts his guests, he doesn't argue with them. Confrontation doesn't work on radio because, when people who would lustily argue with each other in print face each other in a studio or over the air, they're irritatingly nice to each other. But chatty conversations do work on air. Speakers tend to relax when they can't see their audience. If Adams is not reasonably nice to establishment guests, they won't return. Some nights, he comes off-air furious with himself, a guest, the technology or the producers for mistakes in the brief, although he always admits mistakes on-air and cops the flak for monumental clangers.

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Adams has never had a cross word with an executive producer, but he believes cross words would improve other Radio National programs because some presenters depend too much on their producers. Other Radio National programs are jealous of
LNL
having a staff of six: Adams, acting executive producer Gail Boserio, the other producers and the technical director. Some producers have good contact books; others have good subject knowledge — and these individuals have to be prevented from bending the program their way.