The Iceman: The Rise and Fall of a Crime Lord (19 page)

Police
:
Can you tell us why we came to be here? Was that at your request?

McDowall: Yeah, it was at my request.

When did you first do that?

I spoke to my solicitor a couple of months back and asked him to contact the police due to the fact the people I worked for had taken a contract out on me.

Could you repeat that a wee bit louder, Robert?

The people I was working for in Glasgow – they’ve taken a contract out on me.

Your current status within the prison – would you like to explain it to us?

I’m a prisoner serving ten years for being concerned in the supply of forty kilos of heroin.

You’re not on remand or anything? You’re a convicted prisoner?

Yeah.

You said you spoke to your lawyer a couple of months ago. What’s his name?

David Finnie of Walker & Sharpe in Dumfries.

What did you say to him?

I asked him if he would get in touch with the police as I might have some information – hopefully it would stem the flow of drugs coming into Glasgow.

Did you tell him what you were going to tell us?

I didn’t tell him. I just gave him a brief outline of it and he said he would get in touch with the SDEA.

I’ve tried to speak to your lawyer earlier this week and left a message for him and he has not got back in touch with us so are you happy to continue?

Yeah, I’m happy to speak with yourselves.

We are just trying to get across that it was you who instigated us to come and speak to you.

Yes, it was at my instigation.

What would your reasons be for that?

I’m quite disgusted with the fact that it was heroin in the first place and by the fact that they are not prepared to let me just carry on doing my sentence.

Who’s not?

The people I was working for in Glasgow.

Just so we are clear here. You were arrested bringing heroin into Scotland?

Yes, that’s correct.

Was it on board a vehicle?

Yes, it was on the lorry, 27 June 2003, and I imported it from Holland.

So you are disgusted with the people who tasked you to do this – is this correct?

Yes, that’s correct.

Who would that be?

My co-accused Frank . . . Francis Gallagher and the leader of the group, who I know as J or Jamie.

Are you saying Jimmy or Jamie?

Jamie – as in James.

What’s his second name?

I don’t know his second name.

Do you know anything else about him?

Apart from a rough description of him. He’s pretty tall, six foot, very well built, slim build but muscular and any time I’ve saw him, he’s always been wearing tracksuit types of things.

When did you first meet him?

I first met him in December of 2002.

How did that meeting come about?

It was arranged by a friend of mine in Ireland.

Do you want to give us his name?

No.

So what happened?

He had been in contact over the years and he asked me would I be interested in doing a wee bit extra and earning a few extra quid.

Were you going through a difficult time at that time?

Yes, I had the hotel down the road at the time and it had nearly gone bust and I needed money pretty fast. I’d been in for a couple of years. I had a stroke in November 2001 and was out of work until January 2003.

I appreciate you don’t want to give his name if he’s a friend of yours but what did he say to you exactly?

He said to me would I be interested in bringing in some gear from the continent if I started working for a continental firm.

A continental lorry firm?

A transport firm, yeah.

What firm would that be?

Kelly’s Flowers, of Lisburn, Co. Antrim. [There is nothing to suggest the firm was aware of any illegal activity involving their vehicles.]

Northern Irish?

Northern Irish firm, yeah.

Did he tell you who you were doing that on behalf of if you decided to do it?

He basically offered me to meet the people up in Ayr in December.

Sorry. Did you say Ayr?

Yeah, Ayr in December 2002.

What was your understanding of what you were going to be doing when you were first asked?

My understanding was I would be bringing drugs in. I was under the impression it was soft drugs rather than heroin.

What happened?

I said I would go and meet the people and see what they think of it. If it was pretty good – talk business, nothing lost.

What happened thereafter?

He set the meeting up for me in December and I met the two guys at the racecourse car park in Ayr.

So who did you meet there?

Francis Gallagher, my co-accused, and the other guy, Jamie.

How did he introduce himself to you?

Just Frank and Jamie.

Was anyone else there?

My friend and myself.

How did Francis Gallagher and Jamie get there?

In a silver Mercedes – Y-reg.

Where exactly did the meeting take place?

At the side of Tesco’s beside the racecourse.

What time of day, Robert?

It was about 11 p.m.

Who was doing the talking in this meeting?

We all sat in the Mercedes and spoke to the two guys and they told us roughly how the operation worked.

Who was doing the talking?

The J guy – Jamie.

Did you form an opinion?

He was the leader.

The leader?

I’ve no doubts about that – he was the man in charge.

What exactly did he say to you?

What he said was they use Kelly’s Flowers lorries quite a lot to bring stuff from . . . he gave me the road number, the N11 in Holland and the name of the place was Rijnsburg.

Did he quiz you at all?

Yeah, he asked me if I had any previous convictions or if I had been done for anything?

Why do you think he was asking that question?

In case the police were following me or something. He was quite suspicious of me ’cos obviously they didn’t know me.

OK. What else did he say? Did he talk about money?

Yeah. He said I’d be looked after. He never put an exact figure on it. He said it would be very, very good money in it for me.

So did he mention what type of drugs?

They said it would probably be Ecstasy, cannabis. I made it very clear to them that I wouldn’t carry heroin. I’m very anti-drugs – particularly heroin. That’s what makes it disgusting. That’s what I got conned into bringing in for them.

Is there anything else about this guy J or Jamie that would help us identify him – anything about him at all?

I know for a fact that he’s always in the gym of the Hilton Hotel, in East Kilbride.

How do you know that, Robert?

Frank Gallagher told me. I did a remand with him in Dumfries then I did a three-month remand with him here in Kilmarnock.

What else did you learn from Frank that might help us identify him? Did he say where he stays?

No. Obviously he’s from Glasgow. He’s a Glasgow boy. That’s where he always contacts him by mobile phone.

That’s how Frank communicates with him?

Yeah, that’s how Frank communicated with him and how they communicated with me, with Vodafone throwaways.

Did he say anything about what this J guy’s been involved in in the past?

He didn’t. I’ve learned quite a bit about him from my friends. Last year, he bought a lot of properties in Spain. From what he said in multimillions – the property he bought. He’s obviously a big player.

Any specific area in Spain?

Costa del Sol. The figure he mentioned was something like £36 million.

Did you learn anything else about this guy’s criminal background? What he’d been involved in?

No. Apart from the fact that my mate told me that he’s a killer – said he’s killed people before and anyone who crosses him.

Did he mention any of the people?

No, he didn’t mention any names.

OK. To go back slightly – is he asking you to do runs for him?

Yes. Just at that meeting in the car park. I said I had an old furniture van down at the hotel I had in Colmonell. I was wondering if it was suitable for transporting stuff for them. Him and Frank came down to have a look at it. The van was too old for them – too old, too conspicuous.

How did you get from that meeting to Colmonell. You and your unknown friend travel to Colmonell and did they come with you?

They followed us in the Mercedes.

And what happened during that meeting?

We went into the backyard of the hotel, showed them the lorry. They said, if I started working with Kelly’s, they would throw a lot of money my way.

Anything else said about drugs or money at this point?

They just said the money would be very, very good. I’d be well looked after if I worked for them.

OK. What happened thereafter, Robert?

They stayed with me for about half an hour and that’s the only time I ever seen J.

Half an hour is quite a long time. Is there anything else you can remember from that conversation that will help us identify him?

Just the fact that I would know him again. I will be able to recognise him by his mannerisms.

Any tattoos?

His arms were covered. Very, very clean and very sporty look about him. Muscular. I’ve learned since he’s a fitness fanatic and he’s always armed.

Did you see a weapon on him at all?

No.

You saw them for half an hour. Did you then make a decision?

I said I would be willing to work for them and, a couple of weeks later, they rang me and asked me to work for this guy Danny.

Who was it that rang you, Robert?

Frank . . . Frank Gallagher.

The number that Frank phoned you on – do you still have that number?

It might be on my mobile phone.

Were there mobile phones taken from you on your arrest?

Yeah. I don’t know the phone itself. Do they have memories still in them?

Do you remember what date the call was made?

January 2003.

How many phones did you have?

Four. One belonged to Kelly’s and three of my own.

Can you describe which phone?

I think it was a Siemens A55.

Can you remember what time of day that call came in?

Round about lunchtime. I couldn’t honestly say.

What was the conversation about when he phoned you?

He asked me to go and drive for this guy, Danny [who ran a Dutch-registered transport company]. I was to meet him on the Saturday night at Larkhall. There’s an industrial estate there, a fish processing place, fish wholesalers. Can’t think of the name of the company and I went out that night to France, drove down to Poole and crossed on the ferry, dropped off the fish. I got stopped by Customs and Excise.

Can you remember what date that was?

Mid January.

So, when you came back with this bona fide load, you get stopped by Customs?

Yes.

What happened?

They just checked the load – a lassie checked along the top of the load – it was all frozen French bread.

What port?

Dover.

Who introduced you to Danny?

It was through Frank – Frank Gallagher.

Were you, Frank and Danny together?